Thanks in no small part to Robb Wolf’s new bestseller, “The Paleo Solution“, our Fish Oil Calculator is being utilized by thousands of visitors a day. (As an aside, if you haven’t read Robb’s book yet, we don’t know what you’re waiting for. It’s the best “intro to Paleo” we’ve seen, combining humor, common sense and science into a practical, applicable take-home “how to” for improving your health).
While the Calculator is a great tool for estimating your dose, it’s not designed to be a stand-alone resource. We expect you do some homework before plugging in your stats, learning more about the benefits of fish oil, and the methodology behind Robb’s dosing recommendations. Most importantly, we expect you to make decisions responsibly, evaluating for yourself which supplements are right for you, and in what amounts. And while we discuss Omega-3 supplementation in great detail at our workshops, we thought we’d add this handy FAQ as a resource for those of you new to the idea of fish oil supplementation, or looking for more information about Omega-3s.
In addition, we’ve recently partnered with Stronger, Faster, Healthier to give Whole9 readers a 10% discount on the brand of fish oil that we use ourselves. While we’ve been approached by many companies looking to partner with us, SFH is the first company we’ve actively solicited ourselves. We’ve been using their OmegaMaine fish oil for six months now, after stumbling across it in a health food store in Maine. We contacted them in August, and have since had several calls with the entire SFH family (literally – it’s a family-run business!). Their product standards, high quality ingredients, super-potent liquids and surprisingly tasty flavors made us want to share their OmegaMaine fish oil products with you. So effective immediately, our readers get 10% off their total SFH order… and we managed to score some extra big discounts for our workshop participants, too. Visit Stronger Faster Healthier’s Omega-3 products, and use the discount code “Whole9” when you place your order.
Click on over to the Whole9 Fish Oil FAQ page to start learning more about Omega-3 supplementation with fish oil.
And visit your local book store or Amazon.com to pick up your copy of Robb’s book today! Got a fish oil related question we haven’t answered in the FAQ? Post it to comments here – we may just add it to our reference page.
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Dear Melissa and/or Dallas,
I was telling someone I take fish oil and they told me Krill oil was far superior and I should switch. Can you provides your thoughts on Krill oil in general?
Thanks,
Claudia
Claudia,
Read our Fish Oil FAQ for our thoughts on krill oil. We’ve already anticipated your question ;)
Hey Dallas and Melissa–first, thanks again for all your amazing content. I took your seminar in Snoqualmie WA in June, been following the blog ever since, hitting PR’s, did my first ever WOD as Rx’d last friday! Ordered Robb’s book week one. Still have the occasional beer and dark chocolate, and I know I will get no love from you on that. But thank you anyway for everything!
I just ran out of fish oil, so totally willing to give SFH a try–is there an extra discount beyond the 10% for having attended the June seminar? Either way–many, many thanks. The $75 I spent for your seminar was a drop in the bucket compared to what I have gotten from it. Kudos again!
Steve
Steve,
Short answer is… we don’t know (if there’s an additional discount available), but we’re looking into it already. Sounds like you’re rockin’ your workouts! Solid work, my friend.
I love the calculator, and the blog great work great info. I especially love your pull-up post, I agree 100% with that methodology.
I do have a question, when will we see a Seminar in the New England area? Specifically North Eastern Mass or southern New Hampshire area. I’m waiting!
Can you guys recommend any brands that are less pricey, or does the quality fall off dramatically after this tier (SFH, Carlson’s, etc.)? For those of us who are .5 factors at minimum, a bottle from one of these brands really doesn’t go a long way with the higher doses. I’ve been using whatever I found at Walmart but the quality is obviously not gonna be great or possibly even passable after reading your fish oil guide.
@Max: “Cheap” brands will almost always include less-than-stellar ingredients. In addition, I’m concerned with freshness issues with some of those big-chain brands (those sold in WalMart, Costco, etc.). Sitting on a warm shelf for months on end in a white bottle with clear-coated capsules isn’t a winning combination.
Cleaning up your dietary and lifestyle factors will mean you can reduce your Fish Oil Factor – but if you see the value in Omega-3 supplementation, you may just have to factor in the cost as part of your “health and fitness” plan. Sorry that’s not more helpful.
Best,
Melissa
What are the odds of previous attendees of the Whole9 workshop scoring the “extra big discounts?” I have been using the Sams club brand of Fish Oil and although the ingredients look ok I am with you on the concern over it sitting on the shelf for months at a time.
Also, any chance of you heading to West Texas or Northern NM for a trainer workshop anytime? I traveled 3 hours for the Austin one so making another day trip for trainer workshop is definitely doable. I am further west this time so Austin or Dallas are over 6 hours away but Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Lubbock, or Amarillo within striking distance.
@ALL: Unfortunately, our business relationship with SFH is new, which means any “special bonus” discounts are only available for future workshop attendees. Prior workshop attendees can still score the 10% off with the “Whole9” code, however.
@Kevin: We don’t have any Trainer’s events booked in that area at this time – we’re rolling those out pretty slowly at this point. Stay tuned to our sidebar, as new events will be announced there first. (We are coming to Albuquerque in October, but only for a full day Foundations workshop.)
Best,
Melissa
Hi, I have a fish allergy so I take the following algae supplement which has both DHA and EPA http://www.v-pure.com/ any comments on what dosing I should be using I am 163 lbs and i would factor in between 0.5 and 0.75 (my diet and training is good but i dont get enough sleep and i suffer from allergies) Thanks for your thoughts.
Michelle,
Good question. Most algae oils only contain DHA (which is why the Calculator doesn’t work for that scenario), but since this one has some EPA as well, you could actually use the Calculator to figure out your dose. Good luck.
In Robb’s book he recommends that pregnant, breastfeeding women, and children supplement with DHA only supplements. In your FAQ you recommend fish oil (1:1 DHA EPA) for pregnant women. Can you explain your recommendation over Robb Wolfs’? Thank you.
@Demain: You’re sort of combining two questions into one, which is not how these two particular FAQ points were intended to be read. As stated in the first question, for most folks, a 1:1 ratio is pretty solid. If you’re pregnant, however, we mention that DHA, specifically, is of importance. We’re in agreement with Robb on this one.
Best,
Melissa
Holy Oprah and Miley Cyrus! OmegaMaine has TRAVEL BOTTLES! Do you realize the awesomeness of this?
I have just received my bottle from SFH and I have a question: The supplement facts give a fork amount for the EPA and DHA not a single number (EPA 1625-1900 & DHA 1525-1700). Why is that and which to use in the calculator?
@Kassi: We know – it’s genius, right? We flew with our entire variety pack this weekend, and did Fish Oil taste-testing at both our Genesis and Battle Born workshops. People loved the chocolate and vanilla!
@Valerie: Great question – we went right to the source for the answer. (And got a response back within minutes – that’s the benefit of working with a family-run company.) From the OmegaMaine folks:
“All companies SHOULD use a range… most do not, and just report the upper end of their spectrum. All fish are different, hence all lots of fish are different, which means the EPA/DHA amounts will differ a bit from bottle to bottle.”
We’d recommend that you use the highest end of the spectrum for our calculator – 1.9 grams and 1.7 grams, per serving, respectively.
Best,
Melissa
Hey Dallas and Melissa-
Just got my SFH shipment–one bottle of lemon and one of vanilla. Super excited! Gonna try them at lunch. Thanks for the recommendation.
On a different topic–I have to admit, I have a love of bacon. (Probably not alone here). I buy the highest quality I can find–either Niman Ranch nitrate/nitrite free, or from the local farmer’s market here in Seattle. I am not worried about portioning–I only eat it on the weekends (it takes so dang long to cook), and I probably average 4–6 slices per week.
My question–what are your thoughts about cooking with bacon fat? I have quite a bit reserved from my cooking. If I am braising a big pile of greens or spinach, etc, it sure beats the heck outta coconut oil for flavor.
I think I already know the answer–I have looked at Niman Ranch’s website, and although they have very high standards for their pork, I am pretty sure it is all still grain fed. I know that good sources of protein and fat from animals is a foundation of the Paleo diet, but guessing the grass fed vs. grain fed is real the difference here. Can you give me your thoughts?
Again, thank you so much for all the great info you guys put out there!
Steve
Melissa and Dallas – Great site – thanks!
I calculated the quantity of OmegaMaine fish oil I would need (220 lb, used .6 factor – 99% paleo, scaled CF / 603 PTP 3-1 / 4-1, ~25%BF). Using 1.9g/EPA and 1.7g/DHA, it comes to 7 tsp / day or about $163/month. That seems like a lot to pay for fish oil. Am I calculating correctly?
Thanks again – Gene
I was wondering is it OK to take Vitamin C (As L-Ascorbic Acid) 1125 Mg mix in water with the Carlson finest fish oil or other fish oil ?
Steve,
Your answer is correct. So… if you want, use a little (bacon grease) occasionally , and savor it, but don’t make it your go-to fat source. There are no grass-fed pigs, which is why we don’t think pork of any quality (other than wild boar) is as good of a choice as 100% grass-fed beef or other wild ruminants (like deer, elk, etc.). Hope this helps.
Joe,
Fire away. As long as it’s JUST vitamin C, with no other ingredients.
Gene,
Your math is correct, but I think you could cut back your dose to a much lower factor, maybe a .2 or .3 or something thereabouts. It sounds like you’re on track with food and training, so I think you’d be fine at a much lower dose. We had a great conversation with Robb Wolf last week, and we’re going to be clarifying his recommendations soon. I’d recommend cutting back your dose substantially. Best,
Dallas
Can one of you please explain to me why up to high doses (10-15 grams and above) of fish oil per day is beneficial? Will this not make the cell too leaky, making it more able to take on inflammation? Please read the following and give your opinion. I am aware that most people in these studies would not be eating according to the quality of the paleo diet. Nevertheless, the information is abundant and is relevant – http://www.brianpeskin.com/BP.com/reports/CAMB-Fish-Oil-Fallacies-Report.pdf
Michael FitzGerald
Your Fish Oil FAQs state that one should not use cod liver oil as fish oil because of the high level of vitamin A and the low level of vitamin D – but on the back of my bottle it claims 10 micros of D per teaspoon. That’s already twice the recommended daily intake, while the level of A is 250 micros per teaspoon – less than a third of the recommended daily intake. Does my oil have weird levels or do you have completely different ideas about what are good levels for these vitamins?
Michael,
Thanks for your question. I’ve read Brian Peskin’s stuff, and while I don’t toot my own horn nearly as hard as he does, I do disagree with some of the things he says in the article. Or, more specifically, I agree with the technicality of it, but the actual real-life application doesn’t add up. For example, his statement that all we need are “parent” EFAs is technically true, since we can produce some EPA and DHA from alpha-linolenic acid. While technically true, what he fails to mention is that the conversion process from ALA to EPA and DHA (the fatty acids that actually have an anti-inflammatory effect) is long and is easily (and commonly) disrupted by things like alcohol, trans fats, and aging. So I’d says he misses some of the real-life scenarios that occur to most of us at some point in our lives.
On your question about “making the cell too leaky”, I’d simply answer “no”. EPA and DHA don’t make cells “leaky” at all, and “inflammation” isn’t something you can “take on” or “catch” like the common cold.
Furthermore, to clarify: we don’t want people on super-high dose fish oil for long periods of time. The high-dose factors are simply to get you headed in the right direction, but more importantly, we want you (everyone!) to make radical, aggressive changes to your diet and lifestyle if the Fish Oil Calculator is telling you that you need 10-15 grams of fish oil per day. Ideally, eat more wild-caught meat and fish, avoid Nasty Food like grains and dairy, and you might not need any fish oil at all. Since we travel a lot and can’t always get grass-fed beef or wild-caught salmon, we take a small fish oil dose, probably about a 0.15 or 0.2 factor. Fish oil is simply a “band-aid'” for the unnatural lives a lot of us lead these days. Hope this helps.
Simon,
CLO is good for supplying small amounts of vitamin A and D, but in larger doses (like you’d have to take to get enough EPA and DHA), the excessive vitamin A might cause problems. We sometimes use low-dose CLO as a vitamin A source, but it’s not high on our list of (supplement) priorities. Stick with concentrated fish oil as your EPA/DHA source.
Dallas,
In short, what you are saying is that Brian Peskin is incorrect.
Regarding your statement that he fails to mention conversion rates of ALA/EPA/DHA – the attached article clearly states that the conversion rates from ALA to EPA to DHA are small. Smaller than most believe. This is where I made the conjecture that excess derivatives of ALA will lead to issues at the cell membrane (which I learned from his work and my naturopaths), where there is more need for Parent Omega 3, not EPA/DHA, same with the brain. He supplies experiments showing that fish oil supplementation has reduced immune system function – see the article for specifics.
If the conversion rates from ALA to EPA to DHA are very low, does that not imply that high amounts of EPA and DHA are an overdose? He also states that the Parent Omega 6 pathway, when coming from unadulterated Omega 6, will be more anti-inflammatory/thrombotic than the Omega 3 pathway. Can you comment? And, the body can regulate the amount of EPA/DHA it needs when provide with the parent form (from Peskin).
Reason I ask all this is that my clients (keeners) are being influenced by amount of EPA/DHA necessary to have optimal health. And, I know that many others are as well.
Michael FitzGerald
Happy New Year! Is the recommendation to take higher doses throughout the day, and to take fish oil with or sandwiched with meals, based on absorption or convenience? That is, it’s more convenient for me to take current 2 Tbsp dose at one time in the morning – and I have no ill-effects – but am I losing absorption efficiency or something? Thank you so much.
@Ted: We do recommend you take a higher daily dose of fish oil throughout the day, rather than in one sitting. It’s not really about absorption or convenience – more about your body’s ability to process high amounts of fat consumed in a single sitting. Eating too much of any fat at once will upset your digestive tract – whether it’s coconut milk or fish oil. So if the calculator has you on a higher daily dose, you may want to split those up between two or three meals.
However, two tablespoons is a totally reasonable amount to take all in one sitting, so you shouldn’t have a need to split up a dose that small – especially if that’s what you’ve BEEN doing, and haven’t noticed any ill effects.
Best,
Melissa
Hi,
So, I get adding Omega-3’s to the diet, but shouldn’t there be a balance between Omega-3’s, 6’s, 9’s? If we’ve been eating squeaky clean for X days shouldn’t we be worried about having too little of Omega-6’s and 9’s in our system? Is supplementing with Borage oil or similar Omega-6 necessary at some point if we are truly embracing the paleo lifestyle?
Thanks and GREAT site you have here.
Chris,
Short answer is no. Embrace the “Paleo lifestyle”, and you’ll still get plenty of omega-6 and -9 (oleic acid). No omega-6 or -9 supplement is generally necessary, though we do recommend a GLA supplement for a small percentage of the population, but that’s the exception, not the rule (and that’s because of conversion problems, no deficiencies.) Also, omega-9’s are not “essential” since your body can make them, but if you eat any meat, nuts, avocado, or olives/EVOO, you’re still getting enough (oleic acid).
Dallas
How should I adjust the fish oil Calculator when taking Enteric coated fish oil, you are supposed to have to take less than taking non -coated fish oils. How do you feel about that?
Thanks for your help.
How should I adjust the fish oil Calculator when taking Enteric coated fish oil, you are supposed to have to take less than taking non -coated fish oils. How do you feel about that?
Thanks for your help.
@Robert: The folks who make enteric coated pills claim that you have to take less, because it’s absorbed better. We simply don’t buy that claim. So, no, you don’t need to adjust the calculator based on whether your pills are enteric-coated or not.
Melissa
I’m trying to figure out if I can actually financially afford to take as much fish oil as the calculator says I should. I am currently 30 weeks pregnant, and at 5’8″ weigh 200 pounds. I eat lots of eggs, yogurt, and grass-fed beef, but am also enjoying my ice cream and girl scout cookies, so I know cleaning up my diet would change my factor. I am assuming the pregnancy would have me calculate at a factor of one.
200 lbs, factor 1, using OmegaMaine’s dose has me taking 11 tsp/day or 5.5 servings a day. With 30 servings/bottle that’s about 5 days worth of fish oil in each bottle, or $38 every week. That’s over $150/mo in fish oil, ack!!!
Suggestions? (other than eating super clean) Do I need to calculate at a factor of 1 because I’m pregnant or can I go lower?
Also just found out I’m Vit D deficient, at 22ng/ml, lower than the minimum of 33ng/ml I should be. So one more supplement to add. Any suggestions there? Thanks in advance!
Lucy,
I’m glad you asked that question. First of all, I’ll reiterate the “consult your doctor before starting any new supplement” recommendation. Second… I’ll be polite, but still pretty straightforward: if you are still “enjoying” stuff like ice cream and Thin Mints, taking high-dose fish oil is both a waste of money and potentially problematic. Furthermore, monster doses like that, while not ideal for anyone long-term, are even LESS good for pregnant ladies. Your body is “donating” a lot of your stored EFAs (like DHA) to your growing baby, so you should take in some extra to prevent “depleting” your stores completely, as well as to suppress any undue systemic inflammation. But taking in way too much EPA can actually create some problems, too, so moderation is key here (as is making good food choices so you have less to “fix”). So… I’d recommend a couple things:
1. Top priority: fix your diet. You’re building a new human, and they’re built better out of grass-fed beef than Breyer’s. Sounds harsh, maybe, but don’t think you can take high-dose fish oil and “offset” your suboptimal diet.
2. Find a DHA-rich EFA (fish) oil. I like Ascenta’s NutraSea-DHA (or something comparable) in this case. You might mix in your “regular” SFH fish oil occasionally (for variety, mostly).
3. Reduce your total fish oil intake dramatically. If you got 1-4 grams of DHA daily, you’d be meeting a significant portion of your baby’s needs. More EPA is not better during pregnancy, though, so go easy on the “regular” fish oil. Skip using the Fish Oil Calculator altogether. If in doubt, check with your doctor.
4. Add a vitamin E supplement, 200-400IU per day (again, more is not better). Better yet, get your hands on some “mixed tocopherols” (natural antioxidants related to vitamin E). The fragile polyunsaturated fats in fish oil are quite susceptible to oxidation (breakdown into free radicals) and vitamin E helps to make them less problematic (i.e. potentially inflammatory).
5. Read Emily Dean’s great little piece on DHA and pregnancy here: http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/10/fish-oil-is-not-magick-but-it-might.html
6. Fix your diet. Yeah, I know I already said that. But it’s THAT important.
On your vitamin D question, we use a Now Foods vitamin D supplement that’s in olive oil (not soybean oil). Start with 2000-5000IU daily. Once again, check with your doctor.
Wishing you a happy, healthy pregnancy!
I did a cost comparison of some fish oils. Turns out the pills are much cheaper than the liquid, and, counter to what most suggest, the pills with the basic low dose of 180 and 120mg of EPA and DHA, are cheapest overall, even when intaking 10g per day.
Check the spreadsheet out here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0AoWxUI2qLRJIdGZ0bUZkbW1lLS15QzJucFo5YmJKdGc&single=true&gid=1&output=html
Spencer,
Thanks for your well-meaning comment, though you’ve missed a few important points. EPA and DHA content (i.e. price/gram) is only part of the story. A few points:
1. While supplementing with omega-3s is a good way to “help out” your omega 6:3 ratio (concurrent with making aggressive dietary changes), consuming tons of polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) is not a great idea in general. PUFAs are highly susceptible to oxidation, and oxidized fats are basically poison (heard of free radicals?). So…
2. Your best case scenario is enough EPA and DHA, but no more, and certainly not voluntarily taking in additional PUFAs “piggybacking” into your body in your fish oil. Managing dietary intake of linoleic acid and arachidonic acid is important, and if you’re doing a good job of that, then supplementing with EPA becomes a little less important (you still need some DHA to build into cellular membranes). The problem with low concentration fish oil (like the generic capsule form you suggest) is that, when EPA + DHA concentrations are low, that means that there’s a LOT of other PUFAs – and they’re contributing to your total PUFA intake… which we want to carefully manage.
3. As I mentioned, oxidized fish oil is basically toxic, so we have extraordinarily high standards for “freshness”, meaning that the fish oil has not been exposed to high temperatures, oxygen, or even light for extended periods of time. 10 bucks says the Costco brand or the stuff from bodybuilding.com is just sitting on a warehouse shelf somewhere for god-knows-how-long, and is likely partially oxidized. No, thank you. SFH does an excellent job of protecting the delicate PUFAs from oxidation in their manufacturing process, and we keep our fish oil in the fridge (i.e. no light or heat), and use up an open bottle within a few weeks.
4. Furthermore, the capsules can “hide” oxidized fish oil. If you open a bottle of capsules, and it smells fishy, THROW IT AWAY – don’t take it. If you’ve ever used SFH’s liquid, there’s NO fishy smell/taste, and that’s a great indicator that it’s not oxidized.
5. Who wants to take several dozen capsules per day? Not many folks. Compliance with fish oil is a major issue, and taking a teaspoon or two or vanilla-flavored liquid generally promotes better compliance than several fistfuls of capsules.
So our criteria for fish oil include: high concentration of EPA and DHA (so we get minimal additional PUFAs beyond the EPA and DHA), excellent purity/freshness (so there are no contaminants or oxidized PUFAs in the fish oil), and no capsules to “hide” potentially rancid oils.
Thanks for doing the work with the spreadsheet, but the take-home message is that there’s far more to choosing a fish oil than price per gram.
Hey Dallas,
I’m adding your reply to the spreadsheet in case anyone views it in the future. I’m not surprised to see that it wasn’t as simple as figuring out which product will give you the cheapest monthly price.
Thanks man,
Spencer
Any info for folks who are allergic to shell fish? Got that question today and I was stumped. I haven’t Googled it so I may find out there but I thought I’d try your FAQs first.
Thanks,
mdp
Michael,
There are some echium/algae-based oils (like NutraVege by Ascenta) that would most likely be well tolerated.
Best,
Melissa
I just ordered the fish oil suggested under the calculator. When I put in weight of 125, .25 as am in good health and shape and maintaining, and the 1900 for EPA and 1700 for DHA, 2 tsp dose, it says I should take 0.
What am I missing?
On the site it does say 1625 – 1900 EPA and 1525-1700 DHA, am I supposed to put in a number in the middle of those?
Thanks for you help and guidance!
Tawny:
First, you have to hit “enter” to get the calculator to actually calculate, so try entering your numbers again.
Second, all fish oil has a range of EPA/DHA, depending on the “batch” of fish it was sourced from. No two batches are alike, so SFH lists the potential ranges. (ALL companies should do this, by the way… but most just tell you the highest value and call it good. We applaud SFH for their truthfulness in labeling.)
When entering values, err on the high side – enter the highest values in the range.
Best,
Melissa
The calculator used to say to use the higher (loading) dose for 90 days, but now it says 3 weeks tops. Can someone please elaborate as to why the difference? My husband and I just recently started supplementing with fish oil, and I’d like to understand the reason for the change in recommendation.
We are both 100% paleo (no grains, dairy, legumes, sugar, sugar substitutes, packaged foods, etc.) for 2 months now, and have JUST started to work out after a layoff. Our sleep has been consistently improving over these two months. So, though I wouldn’t list us as “ABU”, we’re not yet the specimens of perfect health either.
Thanks in advance!
Stephanie,
Sorry for any confusion – this post (issued with the release of the new calculator) should answer all of your questions.
http://whole9life.com/2011/03/fish-oil-calculator-revised/
Best,
Melissa
Thanks for not flogging me, Melissa! Sorry I missed that… Yes, it does answer all my questions. :)
Hey guys.
I am a CFE head coach and train endurance athletes as well as run seminars for Brian MacKenzie. I have a client looking into the whole vegetarian DHA angle and I wanted to get your collective point of view on this product http://www.ovega.com/. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for your help!
Max
http://www.gotrimax.com
Max,
Thanks for your question – and for the awesome work with CFE. Since vegetarians, and particularly vegans, are a population especially vulnerable to omega-3 deficiencies, yours is a question that we answer often. In general, algae oil like the Ovega is an excellent choice for vegans, though it is much more expensive than comparable amounts of EPA+DHA from fish oil. In the case of Ovega specifically, we’re not thrilled with the ingredient list, but that might be splitting hairs. In general, we prefer a liquid omega-3 oil for a few reasons, including the propensity for capsules to disguise rancid (and exquisitely fragile) PUFAs and the potential for capsule ingredients to cause trouble in people with sensitivities. We wrote about our supplement criteria here: http://whole9life.com/2010/08/whole9-supplement-evaluation-checklist/ Ovega’s marketing claims about the danger of heavy metal contamination of fish oil is fear-mongering, though algae farming is a highly sustainable process (perhaps moreso than ongoing fish harvesting). (Pros and cons.) Vegans might also consider using a echium oil, another plant source of omega-3’s (stearidonic acid, not EPA or DHA) and GLA, which vegans are often deficient in. We sometimes recommend using a blend of algae and echium oil for vegans, but the algae oil is the best source of DHA. For clarity, we do not recommend using echium oil with the Fish Oil Calculator, but algae oil could be used as long as it’s not blended with any concentrated omega-6 sources or lots of GLA, which can quickly become an excessive dose. I guess I’ve rambled a lot, but the short answer is that the Ovega is a decent choice, but I’d recommend finding an algae oil with fewer ingredients/additives. Here’s an example: http://www.nutritionjungle.com/flora-dha-vegetarian-algae-60-capsules.aspx. Hope this helps. Let us know if there’s anything else we can do to help you and your clients. Best,
Dallas
I recently bought Wild Alaskan Salmon fish oil (clear coated capsule forms). Ingredients seem pretty clean: fish oil (100% natural from Wild Alaskan Salmon), softgel (gleatin, glycerin, water), Vitamin E (as D-Alpha Tocopherol). Contains: fish oil (from salmon).
Certified sustainable, cold press, extra virgin, mercury free
Serving size (2 softgels)
DHA 220mg
EPA 180mg
Manufacturer info: http://www.alaskaproteinrecovery.com
I used your fish oil calculator and based on that I should take 3 fish oil pills daily instead of 2. Does this apply for the salmon oil that I purchased?
Thanks
Just want to throw out an endorsement for Stronger Faster Healthier oil. I got a big bottle and a pack of little bottles for travel and they did a special mix of lemon and tangerine as requested and shipping was super-fast. It tastes pretty good too (not quite hot chocolate but a lot better for you). I am still trying to get my HDL up and this will hopefully help.
I have been taking 7 fish oil capsules/day, totaling 2.52 g EPA and 1.75 g DHA (Carlson’s Norwegian Salmon Oil). I’ve been reading about revised lower recommendations, but am torn. The problem is when I reduce below 7 caps/day, I get a lot of aches and pains and muscle stiffness. That’s why I originally got up to 7/day. Several times I’ve reduced, but the aches return. My diet is grass-fed beef, grass-fed butter, pastured eggs, raw milk, coconut oil, lots of mostly-organic vegetables, wild salmon, and few nuts (including macadamias), NO vegetable oils except olive oil, and only occasional soaked-multi-grain home-made bread, rare other carbs such as rice or beans, so one would think I don’t need any supplementation of fish oil. I don’t see how I can reduce my Omega-6’s further or much further. Do you have any advice?
Jo,
If you’re taking <4.0 grams of EPA/DHA per day, I'm not at all worried about that level of consumption. As long as you're not experiencing any negative effects, have any inflammatory bowel conditions and you're watching your total PUFA consumption (as it sounds like you are), I would imagine that level of EPA/DHA is just fine. Of course, you should always consult with your doctor about supplementation.
Best,
Melissa
I’m taking 7 x Veg EPA (1.26g/day EPA) for chronic fatigue after a virus as recommended by an ME specialist, and believe it has really contributed to my relatively fast but ongoing recovery. However I am getting confused about DHA (or rather lack of) and Omega 6, (Evening Primrose Oil) – this is their theory below – could you please comment?
From Veg EPA website
The primary reason why Vegepa only contains ultra-pure EPA and absolutely no DHA is due to the fact that clinical trials show that as the ratio of EPA to DHA increases in a supplement, so does its effectiveness. In addition, some leading experts believe that DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) may inhibit the beneficial actions of EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid). Indeed, recent research has confimed that pure EPA derived from fish oil is as effective as fluoxetine for the treatment of clinical depression (i).
Professor Puri, Consultant at Hammersmith Hospital and Imperial College London, is the author of over 100 scientific papers and more than 20 books, including The Natural Way to Beat Depression, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – A Natural Way to Treat M.E. andAttention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder – A Natural Way to Treat ADHD.
He explains: “In general it has been found that as the ratio of EPA to DHA rises in the supplement used in clinical trials of certain conditions, such as depression and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), the ability of the supplement to improve the condition also rises.”
For these reasons the EPA to DHA ratio in Vegepa capsules is the highest possible – Vegepa contains no DHA at all. Each Vegepa capsule contains around 280 mg of ultra-pure EPA.
Igennus is not negating the use of DHA in all circumstances; its importance for the developing foetus, for example, cannot be over-emphasised. DHA also has properties which make it beneficial for cardiovascular and joint health. What should be recognised, however, is that these fatty acids have very distinct roles for health, particularly the role of EPA in brain function and mood disorders, for which DHA has little benefit. Studies have shown that for these conditions EPA alone is far more effective than in combination with DHA, which can inhibit the beneficial actions of EPA.
With the necessary co-factors the body can convert EPA into DHA as and when it needs it, preventing the unnecessary build-up which results from taking DHA in supplement form, thus avoiding any concerns about its high rate of oxidation.
I have found a remarkable paleolothic quality oil (http://ratfishoil.org/) manufactured by a group of fishermen in the remote areas of Northern Norway. Unfortunatley for us, they are not into mass marketing. Their oil is wild, handcrafted, and extracted using no heat, chemicals, or mechanical pressure whatsoever. Their harvesting and production is really interesting: http://ratfishoil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10%3Aharvesting-and-production&catid=4%3Amain-article&Itemid=5.
I take 12 drops twice a day, so a bottle of this oil lasts for a long time. It is produced in limited quantities.
HI guys,
I was reading the article on fish oil and i was wondering what were your thoughts on plant based blend of 3-6-9 oil? I was using Udo’s choice and now I’m considering whether I should try something different or stick with the status quo. . Any input would be greatly appreciated. Btw i love your site.
regards,
John
Briony,
This discussion would get really long and convoluted, but I’ll do my best to keep it simple and sane (even though I’m not either of those things). The observation about EPA:DHA ratio in studies tells me little about which EFAs any individual person is *most* deficient in. We believe that a delicate balance of ALA (parent n-3 molecule), LA (parent n-6 molecule), GLA, EPA, and DHA (along with intermediate compounds) is ideal for maintaining health, and that balance is ideally supplied by whole, unprocessed, nutrient-dense food sources (animals AND plants). However, basically ALL of us in the Western world have eaten significant amounts of processed food including industrial seed oils (including damaged n-6 fatty acids) that skew the amount of n-6 in our bodies as well as predispose us to increased rates of lipid peroxidation due to large amounts of PUFAs in our diets. *Both* EPA and DHA have important roles in neurological function and thus in depression and other psychiatric conditions, and small amounts of each can be converted/retroconverted into the other, which is why we think supplementing with a EFA oil that includes amounts of both is your best option. If your diet isn’t optimal (in terms of low/no industrial seed oil intake, and adequate food-based EFA), then supplementation of both EPA and DHA will likely be helpful. At the end of the day, I think the “all EPA, no DHA” slant is just a marketing strategy. Also, you might consider bumping up your total EPA/DHA intake to our 2-4 gram range, but that’s up to you and variable pending how good your diet is or is not. Remember, fish oil is just a supplement, not a solution. Hope this was helpful.
John,
We’re not fans of the Udo’s for a couple reasons: 1. If you’re eating meat, nuts & seeds regularly, you don’t need more omega-6 in your diet. Period. Basically NO ONE in the modern world needs more omega-6, even if your diet is pretty darn good/clean. 2. The primary beneficial omega-9 is oleic acid, which is present in large amounts in animal fats and olive oil, which are far more nutrient-dense as well as cheaper than buying your oleic acid in a bottle instead of sourcing it from food. Food first! 3. The omega-3’s in Udo’s are not the highly useful EPA and DHA, and are far less available for use in your body for immunomodulating (anti-inflammatory) effects. Depending on what the rest of your diet looks like, you may or may not be benefiting from the Udo’s. I’d recommend 1) making sure your diet is solid (including some high-quality animal fats like ghee and tallow), and 2) giving a high quality fish oil a try for a couple months to see if you feel any different. Good luck!
Thanks for your advice!
Briony
Dallas,
I appreciate the time you take to reply to questions and thanks so much for the tip!
Not sure why you are demonizing PUFA’s because both n-3’s and n-6’s are both good for you relative to other things in the typical american diet. All you have to do is look at the evidence on mortality, cardiovascular disease risk and other outcomes from large cohort studies such as the Nurses Health Study or Health Professional Followup Study to see that the more of these fatty acids you get (of both types) proportional to other things in your diet the better from a health standpoint. The whole n-6: n-3 ratio argument is far from evidence-based and has little grounding in science. It is a hypothesis, nothing more.
Did I miss the discussion on what fatty acid testing you recommend? If so, please point me in the right direction!
Many thanks! ~j
I’ve been reading/skimming your Fish oil articles, and I couldn’t find anything for kids. My family is currently taking FCLO which, my husband and I take 1 teaspoon, while our two year old takes .5 teaspoon and our almost 1 year old takes half of what our oldest takes. What is the serving size for children?
Hello,
I’ve just been reading / watching videos about fish oil (i.e., several Crossfit sites, Dr. Sears, etc). My research included your site. I’m trying to figure out how much fish oil I should be taking. Some of the material I’ve been reading calls for a calculation based on body weight, activity level, and EPA/DHA amount. The recommended dosage varies greatly between sites, with some recommending many grams of EPA/DHA per day, and others (such as yourselves) suggesting fewer grams. How do I reconcile these differences? Can you please provide some background regarding your recommended dosage? Thanks!!
Garrett,
Our old fish oil calculator and dose recommendations came thanks to the guidance of our friend Robb Wolf. You can read more about his thought process on the 2-4 grams EPA+DHA daily here: http://robbwolf.com/2011/10/05/fish-oil/
Best,
Melissa
HI Melissa, i use Rx Omega-3 fatctors, from Natural Factors, each capsule has EPA 400mg/ DHA 200 mg, do i need to take 5 to 6 softgels?
Hey guys, interested to see what you think of my form, I found I wsa spending a lot of time trying to figure out how many servings I actually would get out of a bottle of fish oil and how much that serving actually costs. I made a calculator via the website link in this comment, any feedback appreciated, hope it helps. You simply plug in the amount of EPA/DHA in one pill, the amount of pills in the bottle, the price and the total amount of oil per pill.
Hey guys, interested to see what you think of my form, I found I was spending a lot of time trying to figure out how many servings I actually would get out of a bottle of fish oil and how much that serving actually costs. I made a calculator via the website link in this comment, any feedback appreciated, hope it helps. You simply plug in the amount of EPA/DHA in one pill, the amount of pills in the bottle, the price and the total amount of oil per pill.