In last week’s post, we touched on some of the challenges associated with a recent set of workshops – talking “Paleo” principles to both meat-eaters and vegetarians at The Mat Yoga Studio in Richardson, TX. If you’ve been reading our articles or have done your own Whole30 program, you know exactly why we believe grains, dairy and legumes make you less healthy. However, as those food groups are often the very foundation of a vegetarian’s diet, relaying that material at a yoga studio doesn’t exactly make us popular. And if those same vegetarians are then slammed with the next portion of our presentation (which starts with, “Eat meat…”), well… that has the potential to bring the entire workshop to a crashing halt.
Enter almost any CrossFit gym and you’ll find that the concept of “avoid grains, soy, dairy and beans” is pretty old news. To most yogis, however, that is essentially brand new – and terrifying – information. Studio owner Becky Strahan sent us a note a few weeks prior to the workshop, asking us to approach this issue with sensitivity during our workshops. She wrote, “A few of my instructors (vegetarians) have talked to nutritionists who basically told them flat out that the vegetarian choice is wrong. They felt their choices weren’t honored in any way, and were pretty offended.”
Trying to present our material in a manner that was gentle yet effective was a challenge we took very seriously, and undertook carefully. For those of you faced with similar challenges – how to present your nutritional choices to friends and family in a sensitive manner – we’re happy to share our approach with you. While this particular subject matter is specific to vegetarians, our strategy could be employed with anyone who is reluctant to listen, skeptical of the information provided or defensive about their current dietary practices.
The first thing we asked of the group was simply WHY they became vegetarian. There are a number of reasons commonly cited, and knowing the person’s thought process is helpful when determining how to approach the subject of nutrition. In the course of our consulting, we’ve heard a number of common responses to the vegetarian question, including, “It feels healthier”, “It’s what everybody is doing” (common with teenagers), “I’m concerned for the environment and animal welfare”, and “I have moral/ethical issues with consuming animal products.”
The first two motives are the easiest to address. If the person is omitting animal products from their diet for generally vague “health” reasons, then our approach is simple. We carefully explain how grains, dairy and beans make them less healthy, and why adding dense protein sources back into their diets makes them more healthy. We’ve had great success with this approach – if these clients are willing to try it for themselves, the self-observed benefits of making these dietary changes quickly speak for themselves.
The third reason (environmental concerns) is a bit trickier to address. In this instance, we’ll spend some time figuring out if the person is open to incorporating some animal products back into their diet. If so, we then show them how to do so in a manner that is morally, ethically and socially responsible, being conscious of the environment, sustainability and animal welfare. We also give them some advice for making the transition back into a carnivorous diet a bit easier, both mentally and physically.
The last motive cited (a non-negotiable perspective) is the most complicated to address, and requires the most sensitivity. If a person’s reasons for becoming vegetarian stem from firmly rooted moral, ethical or religious beliefs, then as a friend, coach or counselor, you must honor and respect those choices. In this situation, all we can do is educate them on the health challenges they may face, and offer what we would consider their “best available” food choices and nutritional practices. As each individual has different self-imposed dietary restrictions (vegetarian, vegan, or raw, for example) and various degrees to which they will “flex” their preferences, our specific recommendations will be different for everyone. But from our perspective, all of our vegetarian dietary recommendations are simply designed to limit the damage, without expectations that this person will thrive to the same degree as their meat-eating counterparts. It’s a tough balance – we don’t want to preach, scold or scorn, but we also have a responsibility not to whitewash our material. (After all, they’re paying us for our opinions and guidance.) So we simply offer references, resources and best-practice options, and allow the vegetarian to make his or her own educated food choices.
After the workshops, Becky wrote, “I’d say you were honest about the effect of foods that vegetarians typically rely on, you made good suggestions for steps toward better choices, and were very careful to work within the constraints the individuals set for themselves. You presented useful, practical information in an a direct and truthful manner, but were still very respectful (of their choices).” We thank Becky for her feedback, and hope that sharing our thought processes here gives our readers a better framework on which to base some of their own conversations.
Additional Resources: Struggling to explain your nutritional choices, or looking to convince friends and family to change some of their dietary habits? You’ll find additional helpful tips in our “How to Win Friends and Influence Paleo” article.
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Melissa,
I really appreciate this article. I was vegan for awhile before I started crossfit and was very turned off by the attitude of some on the CF board (immediately slamming me for not eating meat and the like, I’m sure you’ve noticed it). It was exactly the approach you used here that changed my mind – once I realized that eating WELL (grassfed meat,organic produce, local when possible, etc etc) is both better for the environment and healthier for me, I made the switch with no problem. Also, bacon. That is all :)
Not sure if I can make it to CF 215 for the workshop, which is sad – the budget is super strict right now so I’ll have to content myself with researching and perusing your stuff. However wanted to let you know that I’m working on my own page right now (www.ironandspice.blogspot.com) and one of the things I’m doing is having my mom and sister try the 30 day Paleo challenge, then posting about it on my blog. I will, of course, give you all due credit and point anyone interested back here for info. I hope that’s okay. They are really excited to give it a try.
Best,
Meghan
Brilliant. I’m honestly very impressed by this approach, both the “we’re not backing down from what we know” and the “hey, here’s what you can try.”
I know from experience (as a trainer, and as an ex-spiritually-influenced vegetarian) how difficult it is to talk about this subject with folks who are incredibly invested in their point of view, even when it isn’t well-researched, well-thought-out, or well-done (i.e. sick people, desperately clinging to the routines making them sick). Finding some common ground first, so they know they’re still welcome, and then sharing what you know, is definitely the way to go.
I think this is really invaluable advice, and I’m going to remember this article as I consult my own members. Cheers!
Great writeup…..It’s hard sometimes to help vegetarians who are eating up their own body in the name of health. I just wrote an article along the exact same lines; you may like it-
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/02/mindful-meat-eating-mike-mallory/
We have all the information in the world it seems, but sometimes these little issues of implementation and communication are the hardest-
love the blog-
I’m a former rabid vegan true believer- my former spiritual path was harshly judgmental regarding meat eating and meat eaters. I used to teach yoga, meditation, etc. Granola, gurus, aloof, serene, militantly compassionate, etc. We loved you, but we knew you were wrong, not as enlightened as us, and you were ignorantly creating bad karma for yourself. Been there, done that.
Now I speak Paleo. I am trying not to turn Paleo into my new religion. But I ‘know’ it works better. Ha!
An excellent book about the vegetarian dilemma is The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith- You can read 14 pages of it on her website. She is a former vegan who had some serious health issues arise that were diet related. She methodically deconstructs most of the standard vegetarian dogma. It helped me untangle some of the logical/ethical dilemmas that still had my former vegan mind tied in philosophical knots.
Beware- I think I bought her book after only reading 5-10 pages. It is well thought out and pretty well researched. http://www.lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm . I found out about it at Mark Sisson’s site, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/vegetarian-myth-review/
This is a very decent post- when we ‘know’ we are right, it is often really hard to respect the views of others, especially if we are ‘sure’ that our knowledge will help them. And the fastest way to alienate those who really believe something strongly is to try to shove contrary beliefs down their throats without listening to them. Not wise.
And on the other hand, if we are taking a fair and balanced approach rather than being strongly for or against something, others will often not take us seriously because we appear as though we are not taking a stand. People want to believe in something, to belong to a tribe, and strong voices with strong opinions inspire faith an allegiance. There are definite $$$ & ego advantages to being a guru but that path comes with major pitfalls, too.
I have had to accept that I just have to open my mouth and say something imperfect (but as wise as I can manage), then deal with whatever happens next. And not be afraid to honestly change my opinion tomorrow if I learn something better.
Thanks for the post. Write on!
Wow, this sounds like a tough one. I’d would have loved to sit in and listen to the entire seminar. You guys rock!
The Vegetarian Myth, by Lierre Keith, is a great read and contains plenty of information for rebutting the vegetarian arguments, especially the health, environment, and moral issues.
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Justice-Sustainability/dp/1604860804/ref=sr_1_1
Meghan and Veronica,
If you’re not able to physically make it to one of our Workshops-on-the-Road, hang tight for a second. We’ve got some really awesome opportunities for folks just like you in the works, and should have some exciting announcements about that really soon… We’re addressing those travel limitations that lots of folks have as best we can. Stay tuned!
Adam,
Glad we could give you some ideas on how to connect with people in a congenial-but-still-opinionated manner. I spent 20 years or so as a vegetarian, but I never tried to convince my omnivorous friends to stop eating animals. I’m awfully thankful that we still get to make some choices for ourselves – like what we get to eat. When you look around the world, we’re very fortunate to have that luxury. Thanks for stopping by.
Cliff and George,
While we appreciate the sharing of intelligent references like Lierre Keith’s book, it should be made clear that we are not attempting to win converts to the Carnivorous Religion of Paleolithicism. In fact, we try to avoid using labels like “Paleo” altogether because people tend to get all tangled up in whether agave nectar or 100% cocoa or heavy cream is considered “Paleo” and miss the point that food should make you healthy. We don’t eat meat because Mark Sisson says Grok would have, we eat it because it’s a dense protein source that allows us to adequately recover from the rough-and-tough lives we live (including our high-intensity, varied exercise program that could be considered “CrossFit”, or not. I mean, do we have to do Fight Gone Bad and Filthy Fifty and Angie monthly to be “CrossFit”? I digress…). So in the same vein as not preaching the Paleo Gospel, we’re not out to “rebut” the “arguments” for vegetarianism. We simply strive to present valuable information to people about how to live happier, healthier (and less confrontational!) lives, and let them decide for themselves what is the best path for them. Whether my vegetarian friends eat meat or not has no bearing on how healthy I am, and at the end of the day, I can only control what goes in my own mouth. Thanks for posting the resources. Eat Good Food, exercise hard and often, and be good to your neighbors.
Dallas
Cliff, I’ve heard of lots of vegetarians, and most commonly vegans, whose doctors have advised them to start eating meat or else suffer a whole host of health problems. I suspect that there are many more who would just never admit it. I’ve never heard of a meat eater whose doctor advised them to stop eating meat in the interest of their health.
Dallas, I’ve never tried to win any converts. All I try to do is educate why eating meat is a good and natural thing, especially when you are smart about your meat sources. For example, as long as it is deer season, I eat exclusively venison for red meat. That doe lived a long and happy life, and rather than dying a slow death of starvation in the snows this winter, she met a quick and easy end at the pointy end of my friend’s rifle. I think that’s more humane than the chemical waste dump that we turn our world into with our grain production.
The best way to lead by example is when the improvements in your lifestyle are so noticeable that when a skeptic starts pushing back, a friend or colleague overhearing steps in, saying, “Oh, no, you didn’t know Emily a year ago. She knows what’s she’s talking about.”
I have found that the biggest hurdles to overcome with anyone, including vegetarians, are the fears of difficulty and boredom. I can whip up an excellent paleo meal in less time than it would take me to drive to McD’s and back. Sure, sometimes I take more time, but I’ll cook for an army and freeze it, so it makes for less time per meal spent cooking. The boredom issue is a tough one. I think that just takes experience to overcome. I think I would die if I had to eat chicken and broccoli for the rest of my life. I have been cooking for nearly 20 years. I have a huge recipe index in my brain and can wing it pretty easily.
But back to vegetarians, it is rare to find one who is actually truly morally convicted and educated about their convictions. Most are hanging onto the health kick bandwagon or the popularity train.
Hi Guys
I am a vegetarian CF-er. My entire family is vegetarian and have been for generations. It is our way of life and is so for a lot of Indians. Before learning about paleo, I was eating rice, bread, oatmeal, you name it. Then tried the zone. Then I did my version of paleo – which I refer to as Vegetarian Paleo – eating vegetarian the paleo way. The results of switching to vegetarian paleo are still AMAZING! I’ve lost fat, gained strength. My workouts continue to get better. I get my protein from greek yogurt I make at home, from some soy, milk, cheese. I eat a lot of fat, vegetables and some berries. I eat no grains or sugar. While I may not see the same strength gains as someone who’s truly paleo, eating meat, that is just fine with me – omitting grains and sugar STILL works.
I guess what I’m trying to say is- even if you are a vegetarian, you can still eat paleo by omitting the grains and sugar and still get most of the benefits of paleo.
Just wanted to share my experience on this topic. Keep up the awesome work you guys bring to this community and am looking forward to the new and exciting announcements.
@Emily: Thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve made some really smart points. I know a few people who have commented on the “boredom” factor too, but with a little initiative, you never have to hit that “chicken and broccoli again?” point. Learning how to make this a sustainable, satisfying way of life just takes some time, effort and practice – like anything else worth pursuing.
Feel free to drop your favorite veggies recipes on us – we’d love to share them with the community! Thanks for posting.
@Anu: I was hoping to see you here – our recent emails were part of the motivation for this post. Excellent point you offer – you can always make better choices and while still honoring your self-imposed dietary restrictions. I’m glad you discovered that on your own, and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Thank you for the article.
I’ll third or fourth reading “The Vegetarian Myth”
I never understood or could consider the vegetarian perspective until I read this book. Just couldn’t understand why anyone would undertake vegetarianism other than for religious reasons. After reading this book I understand more clearly the numerous lines of thinking that vegetarians have and sympathize with some of them.
“I’ve heard of lots of vegetarians, and most commonly vegans, whose doctors have advised them to start eating meat or else suffer a whole host of health problems. I suspect that there are many more who would just never admit it. I’ve never heard of a meat eater whose doctor advised them to stop eating meat in the interest of their health.”
Try all the doctors that recommend cutting out meat, dairy & eggs for heart health. My own father was steered in that direction after his heart attack. Not that I’m saying doctors necessarily know what they’re talking about when it comes to nutrition, especially not vegetarian nutrition. I think we’ve all heard about how little training your average GP has in that field. When you look at it like that, perhaps it doesn’t really matter that you’ve heard that doctors advise vegetarian patients to start scarfing down ribs?
I hope vegetarians and vegans who HAVE researched their diet don’t back down from what they know: veg*nism and Crossfit can fit together very well, and as Anu mentions above, adopting a better diet is going to improve your health and athletic performance without necessarily compromising your religious, ethical, or environmental beliefs.
And yes, Emily M., nutritionally educated veg*ns do exist, we’re just not necessarily the ones bringing it up in conversation because we’re 18 and recently decided to subsist on a diet of spaghetti from the can and white rice because our favourite band did an ad for PETA. Maybe get out and meet a few more before you start throwing out statisics you pulled from your nether regions?
You may also want to take into account that the western world is set up for meat eaters, not veg*ns; we have to work a lot harder than you to get proper dietary information and advice. It’s only natural that our process of discovery might take longer. Luckily, many new vegetarians will at least try to lay their hands on information about their new diet, unlike people raised omnivorous who may never need to seek it out.
“So in the same vein as not preaching the Paleo Gospel, we’re not out to “rebut” the “arguments” for vegetarianism. We simply strive to present valuable information to people about how to live happier, healthier (and less confrontational!) lives, and let them decide for themselves what is the best path for them.”
Dallas and Melissa – I appreciate your attitude toward veg*n Crossfitters interested in nutrition: understanding and accepting of other diets while still trying to keep everyone as healthy as possible.
This article (and many of the posts) reminds me of the Alcoholics Anonymous chapter “We Agnostics,” where they attempt to reinforce the “god as we understood HIM” part of AA. By the time you finish the chapter though (and read other writings about the subject in AA literature) you’ll see behind the curtain. The moral of the story seems to end up “sooner of later you’ll believe in god too.” I happen to know that there are many sober folk in recovery who continue to be agnostic and are able to stay sober just fine and there are plenty of Crossfitters who continue to thrive without killing animals to do it.
My husband’s in med-school. It’s hilarious to hear people talk about the “unhealthiness” of a vegetarian diet when heart disease is America’s number one killer and food from animals is the number one contributor to arterial plaque.
I just wish somebody would be honest and say “I eat it because I like the taste of it” and leave all that other nonsense to the meat-heads who believe everything their high school football coach told them.
I am new to both CrossFit and the Paleo way of eating. I was every shade of vegetarian, vegan, raw, macrobiotic etc for 15 years at the end of which I suffered a myriad of health issues. I have been run through a battery of tests including those for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, all have come back negative. I am 28. 2 months ago I finally introduced meat into my diet and I have to say the debilitating pain, inflammation and lethargy I have been living with for 5 years has virtually disappeared. Before I began to eat meat I was an avid practitioner of yoga. Now you probably couldn’t pay me to set foot in a studio. I simply don’t want to be judged and ridiculed for doing something that is probably saving my life. I applaud you for your tact, acceptance and sensitivity towards your vegetarian students. I wish some vegetarian teachers would adopt the same attitude.
@Jeff Key: We appreciate all opinions, even dissenting. It’s easy to understand your position, when you take into account that your primary source of information is the established medical community… which knows (or is taught, more accurately) little in the way of nutrition as part of their medical educations. And the idea that consumption of dietary fat and cholesterol leading to heart attack and stroke has proven to be outdated at this point – but unfortunately seems to be exactly what our doctors are STILL learning, and still preaching.
In our vast practical experience working directly with CrossFitting clients, we’ve yet to see a single person truly achieve optimal health on a strict vegetarian regimen. And ALL have improved when they introduced some high quality animal products into their diets. But then again, we’re not doctors. (Maybe for our clients, however, that’s for the best.)
@Mae: Thank you for your testimonial. That has been our experience too, although as we said, we are more than open to working within whatever parameters our clients have set for themselves. We appreciate your contribution here!
Hello. I have been a vegetarian for 30 years and an athlete all my life (I am now almost 50). I have excellent bone density, low blood pressure, low resting heart rate, low fasting blood sugar, excellent blood lipid profile and great strength to body weight ratio. I’m happy and healthy. I do get a lot of criticism from well-meaning Crossfit friends, but I’m fine. I like the way I am and enjoy the way I eat.
One thing that concerns me about the dogmatism I hear from the community is the effect it has had on my 15 year old daughter. She has been vegetarian her entire life and is six feet tall, 140 pounds, solid and strong. However, she is now trying to do “Paleo” by eliminating grains, and legumes from her vegetarian diet. She is losing a lot of weight not getting fitter-stronger-faster in doing this. I appreciate your respectful attitude and wish more people would take this approach, especially with children and teenagers. Forcefully telling kids that they and their families are “wrong” feels, to me, frankly, wrong.
Andrea,
While we don’t think that a typical vegetarian diet will help most people thrive, we’ve also not trying to “convert” you to meat-eating Paleo… ;) For your daughter: we still think that she’d be best served by a diet that excluded those problematic grains and legumes, but we’d recommend adding plenty of healthy fats from coconut, olives/EVOO, avocado, and some nuts. The problem with her elimination of grains and legumes isn’t the elimination of those problematic foods – it’s the general caloric deficit that she is running without them (leading to excessive weight loss). Add a lot more healthy fats, and maybe some of the more protein-dense (though still suboptimal) vegetarian foods like tempeh, miso, or tofu, or some processed hemp/pea protein. Those are all less-than-great choices, but it might help her support her active lifestyle. Thanks for being a parent that really supports an active lifestyle in their kids, and leads by example.
I am a vegetarian, i thought about joining crossfit, im glad i didnt. you cant force someone, who believes in what they are eating, or not eating for that matter to change thier diet just because YOU think its the right way. I cant find ONE top 10 or top 20 diets that have the Paleo diet on it !! not one. I am not one to put down other peoples lifestyles, because it all boils down to personal choice, and what we feel comfortable doing and eating in our lives. I just happen to come across this article and when i read it was like ok i will listen to what a Paleo has to say.. doesnt mean i’ll be a follower, but i am very open to listening. after all these posts… i have changed my mind. Paleo seems to the bandwagon, and im not comfortable jumping on it. I love who I am what i stand for, and no crossFit is going to change that. They way people are talking about yoga (which i happen to love and not because im a vegetarian but because it makes me feel good, i get intouch with my soul and find my inner strengh) and how crossFit is the way to go.. its starting to sound like religion.. like a cult !! For instructors and fellow crossfiters to look down on someone because they CHOOSE not to eat meat it complete and utter bull crap.. its like the catholic church look down on the gay community. its not right. Let people be who THEY want to BE not who you crossFit junkies say they should. In your gyms you should be more open to different diets and have posts of different diets that benefit different body types. Not everyone can eat all the same things, and you people who are so hard core especially when it comes to maintaining the human body should know this. I am all about a healthy lifestyle with a good balanced food palate and regular exercise, but i am not going to let someone push into believing their way is the right way. I would never tell someone my way is the right way… its just the way i CHOOSE to live my life, animal/ cruelty free.
I’ve been a ovo/lacto vegetarian now for about 10years and I would never go back to eating meat. I do think this is an interesting topic though and i have never been to a Crossfit gym. I choose to go vegetarian after reading The Food Revolution by John Robbins. I do it for environmental and ethical issues, though i do think that if people are going to eat meat they should get organic, grass fed etc kinds. I’m currently reading the book The Thrive Diet by Brendan Brazier who is a triathlete and follows a vegan diet. I would love for the Paleo’s to read this and see what they think of it. I also do believe that not everyone can be a vegetarian/vegan. It might not work for everyone’s body type, but if they tried to eat less meat or go some days without it, that would benefit them as well.
Thanks for the article.
Another good read:
Eat to Live and Eat for Health by Dr Joel Fuhrman.
Highly backed by research, helped thousands of people achieve optimal health, and can be vegan, vegetarian, or non-veg (up to 12oz animal protein allowed per week, if desired, tho not optimal).
Crossfit is a great workout, but the dietary dogma needs to go. Humans are primates and thus we should not have a meat/fat-heavy diet. Wow, it kinda sickended me that u tried to convince yogis to eat meat. Can u leave ur crossfit diet dogma agendas behind and just let people enjoy the workout without needing to feel pressured to change their diet?
Legumes are full of nutrients. U need to prepare them the right way, just like any other food. The problems people run into with legumes is poor prep/cooking methods. SOAK, sprout, cook til soft. Puree if desired. Use an enzyme to get u accustomed to eating them—when u cut out a food, u lose the enzymes to digest them. Look for an enzyme with alpha-galactosidase.
And leave veg*ns alone.
I have been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 5.5yrs and just recently started crossfit (4weeks). I embraced an egg-rich paleo-minus-meat diet with the exception of a couple of vices and the odd tempeh and Greek yoghurt. I felt on top of the world and strong, visibly shed weight and knocked more than 2 minutes off of my first ‘for time’ Metcon in just 3 weeks! Then I crashed pretty hard. I was too weak and sick to do anything but lay around, and I was incredibly depressed, worse than I’ve been in a year. Scared the sh!t out of my girlfriend, and her mum. Basically I discovered that my stocks of grain-derived nutrients had finally run out, including my B12. Yes, you get B12 from grains too (among other stuff). Do NOT recommend removing grains from a vegetarian diet, it is irresponsible. A day after I had a small helping of brown rice I felt ready for anything and smashed another Metcon, including my personal weakness, pull-ups! Vegos, do not listen to the Paleo-brainwashed; your trainer, just like your doctor, is not a nutritionist and probably knows nothing about not eating meat. Robb Wolf took the easy way out of veganism by simply eating meat again. If you have the stones to stick to your ethical guns and not eat meat, you can still be a crossfit powerhouse. Don’t believe me? Follow Ed Bauer’s wordpress and hold your head up high! Take the paleo advice that works for vegos (eat whole foods, choose good fats) and make every allowance necessary to account for your refusal of meat. Peace to all, be careful, Arnold
Right on, Arnold! Everything u said was dead-on. It’s great to see other veg*ns thriving. To me, it makes no sense how a meat/fat-heavy diet can be healthy…
Arnold, can u post an example of your typical daily diet (BF, lunch, dinner, snacks)? It might help others see how you CAN be athletic, gain muscle/strength/endurance by not eating meat.
Thanks! Keep on rockin’!
Oh, boy.
Folks, this isn’t a site for vegetarians or vegans to discuss the specifics of their food choices or meal plans. I understand you all have your own personal opinions, and despite the fact that we disagree with your perspective, we are more than willing to allow you all to have a voice in our community. But if you’d like to share the particulars of your vegetarian/vegan diet or discuss your protocols in more detail, there are other websites far better suited to a discussion of that nature.
Best,
Melissa
Hello,
I´m new at crossfit, a friend of mine who has a very different point of view regarding nutrition (big time Paleo) and excercise (big time Crossfit), suggested i give it a try. I´ve been a vegetarian for 6 years, and the only excercise i´ve done in the past 8 years is yoga, I´m proud to say I´m in excellent health and quite fit, but still I´m not closed to trying new things. I look forward to participating in the whole30 in january, applying the suggestions made by Anu :)
I liked the fact that my instructor didnt panick when I told her I was vegetarian, because I was predisposed to find a closed mind toward my eating habits. I believe that the point of whole9 is to guide you to a healthier lifestyle, not to judge or critisice, and that´s why I really liked the attitude of Melissa!
Thanks for sharing your oppinions!
Sofía
Melissa,
Why wouldn’t this be a forum for vegetarians to respond? Your article begs for that–in fact, it claims to be about how to have conversations about choices . . . yet then you jump in and try to stop that conversation?
The article itself is inflammatory, patronizes vegetarians, and treats them as sadly deluded.
I’m not impressed.
Melissa — I was on the fence about doing the Whole30 after reading your book. After reading your response in which you asked this vegan conversation to be taken elsewhere, I am extremely turned off and will probably opt to continue to look for another plan. That post was really a poor choice on your part.
I didn’t share an “opinion”, I told you my direct experience. We can “have a voice” in your community but we should take it elsewhere? This is an article about you going around telling vegetarians to switch to paleo rules, even if it is without meat, and I am telling you that it does not work. Since you obviously don’t know the consequence of telling a vegetarian to do paleo minus meat, and I have done it, I am telling you what happens. And, this is the best and ONLY place for me to tell you.
Peace
PS when I said above that B12 is found in grains I meant B vitamins. Any vegetarian looking for B12 can find it in eggs and nutritional yeast.
Thanks for both your posts, Arnold. My husband and I just finished a vegetarian Whole30 (with yogurt, tempeh, and eggs), and we are both now officially anemic (we ate religiously according to the Whole30 shopping list, never cheated on that, ate A LOT of food, etc). We lost weight, but our energy was never quite there–no Tiger Blood for us. The anemia is mild, and easily correctible, but my experience was a lot like yours. I felt great at first and then just got super tired for the last 10 days or so–but still kept up the workouts, since that was something that I had started before the diet. I’ve slowly added in quinoa and a little bit of rice and I feel much better. Still sticking to whole foods, no sugar, very limited carbs, etc., and I learned a lot, but I find the attitude here about doing a Whole30 as a vegetarian a bit, well, inconsistent to say the least.
Helen,
I’m not sure how you made yourself anemic in 30 days by eating large amounts of nutrient-dense plant foods (per your statement). If anemia is your primary concern, you could choose to speak with a functional medicine practitioner to correct that, and it’s worth adding that if your anemia is an iron-deficiency anemia, small amounts of red meat may work well to correct that, as the heme iron in red meat is absorbed more readily than that from plants. It’s also clear to me that, again per your statements, that your low energy during your Whole30 was not a quinoa-and-rice deficiency – it was inadequate calories and/or carbohydrates to support your physical activity, which is easily achieved with some additional starchy vegetables.
Yep. We did speak with functional medical practitioners, made corrections, and feel much better without adding any red meat to our diets. Really, the point of my posts, and this thread in general, is that the attitude of you and Melissa to those of us who want to try a Whole 30 diet and remain vegetarian is incredibly patronizing.
What about those of us who were raised vegetarian (been lacto/ovo since I was 8 yrs old), want to be able to eat meat, but now after over 37 years of not eating it, am turned off by the idea of biting into flesh? Also, don’t like how it looks before cooking, know the original state, and can’t get past it. I did Atkins and lost about 25 lbs, but it was VERY restrictive as everything has a calorie count. I did the GI Diet which was actually pretty awesome over the course of a year, exercised and lost over 40 lbs. I am currently just watching calories (try to shoot for healthy most of the time…working mom of 3, can be very difficult), and weigh myself once a month and walk (get my Fitbit steps in). I Have lost about 20 lbs in the past 5-6 months. I weigh myself once a month (one week after my TOM) and have been pretty happy with this lifestyle. I would like to “eat clean”, but there are so many variables that go into it that are overwhelming to me as time is so squeezed, as is finances. How do you get over the whole mental thing with meat? If anyone knows of anything aside from hypnosis, I’d love to know!
Alicia, I wish I had that answer too! We care clearly in the same boat. My hesitancy is the same as yours. I was raised a vegetarian and while I know I need to be getting protein from meats and am VERY limited in what meats I will eat b/c it just does not appeal to me at all. I eat as “clean” as I can, but know I am lacking many of the benefits of meat based protein.